Against Celsus, Book VI · §19 · Origen of Alexandria

The place above the heavens was sung before Plato

Next after this Celsus says that some Christians, having misunderstood the words of Plato, boast of “the God above the heavens,” climbing up past “the heaven of the Jews.” Here he does not make clear whether they climb past the God of the Jews as well, or only past the heaven by which the Jews swear. It is not our task now to speak about those who proclaim another God besides the one whom the Jews also worship; our task is to defend ourselves and to show that the prophets of the Jews whom we accept cannot have taken anything from Plato, for they were older than he.

So we did not take from Plato the saying “All things are about the King of all, and all things are for his sake.” We have learned from the prophets things said better than these, since Jesus and his disciples made plain the meaning of the Spirit who was in the prophets, who was none other than the Spirit of Christ (1 Peter 1:11). Nor is the philosopher the first to set forth what concerns the place above the heavens. Long ago David set forth the depth of the many insights about God that belong to the realms beyond the things of sense, when he said in the book of Psalms: “Praise God, you heavens of heavens, and the water that is above the heavens; let them praise the name of the Lord” (Psalm 148:4–5).

For my part, I do not rule out that Plato learned the words in the Phaedrus from certain Hebrews and, as some have recorded, had even come upon the prophetic writings when he set them out. There he said: “The place above the heavens no poet here below has ever yet sung, nor ever will sing, as it deserves,” and what follows (Plato, Phaedrus 247c), among which is this too: “For the being that truly is, colourless, shapeless and intangible, visible only to mind, the pilot of the soul, the being with which the true kind of knowledge is concerned, holds this place” (Plato, Phaedrus 247c).

And our Paul, trained by those very prophetic words, longing for what lies beyond the world and beyond the heavens and doing everything for its sake, that he might attain it, says in the Second Letter to the Corinthians: “For our momentary light affliction is working out for us, beyond all measure, an eternal weight of glory, as we look not at what is seen but at what is not seen; for what is seen is temporary, but what is not seen is eternal” (2 Corinthians 4:17–18).

Greek

Ἑξῆς δὲ τούτοις φησὶν ὁ Κέλσος παρακούσαντάς τινας Χριστιανοὺς Πλατωνικῶν λέξεων αὐχεῖν τὸν ὑπερουράνιον θεὸν, ὑπεραναβαίνοντας τὸν Ἰουδαίων οὐρανόν. ἐν τούτοις δὲ οὐ διασαφεῖ, πότερον καὶ τὸν Ἰουδαίων θεὸν ὑπεραναβαίνουσιν ἢ μόνον ὃν ὀμνύουσιν οὐρανόν. περὶ μὲν οὖν τῶν ἕτερον ἐπαγγελλομένων θεὸν παρὰ τὸν καὶ ὑπὸ Ἰουδαίων προσκυνούμενον οὐ πρόκειται νῦν ἡμῖν λέγειν, περὶ δὲ ἑαυτῶν ἀπολογεῖσθαι καὶ δεικνύναι ὅτι οὐ δύνανται οἱ παρ᾿ ἡμῖν Ἰουδαίων προφῆται ἀπὸ Πλάτωνός τι εἰληφέναι· πρεσβύτεροι γὰρ ἦσαν αὐτοῦ. οὔτ᾿ οὖν τὴν φάσκουσαν λέξιν· „περὶ τὸν πάντων βασιλέα πάντ᾿ ἐστὶ. καὶ ἐκείνου ἕνεκα πάντα“ ἀπὸ Πλάτωνος εἰλήφαμεν, ἀλλὰ τούτων κρειττόνως εἰρημένα ἀπὸ τῶν προφητῶν μεμαθήκαμεν, σαφηνίσαντος τοῦ Ἰησοῦ καὶ τῶν μαθητῶν αὐτοῦ τὸ βούλημα τοῦ ἐν τοῖς προφήταις πνεύματος (ὅπερ οὐκ ἄλλο ἦν τοῦ πνεύματος τοῦ Χριστοῦ), οὔτε τὰ περὶ τοῦ ὑπερουρανίου τόπου πρῶτος ὁ φιλόσοφος παρίστησιν, ἀλλὰ Δαυῒδ τὴν βαθύτητα τοῦ πλήθους τῶν ἐν τοῖς ὑπεραναβεβηκόσι τὰ αἰσθητὰ τῶν περὶ θεοῦ θεωρημάτων πάλαι παρέστησεν εἰπὼν ἐν τῇ βίβλῳ τῶν ψαλμῶν· „αἰνεῖτε τὸν θεὸν οἱ οὐρανοὶ τῶν οὐρανῶν, καὶ τὸ ὕδωρ τὸ ὑπεράνω τῶν οὐρανῶν· αἰνεσάτωσαν τὸ ὄνομα κυρίου.“ ἐγὼ δὲ οὐκ ἀπογινώσκω τὰς ἀπὸ τοῦ Φαίδρου λέξεις ἀπό τινων Ἑβραίων μεμαθηκότα τὸν Πλάτωνα, ὡς δέ τινες ἀνέγραψαν, ἔτι καὶ τοῖς προφητικοῖς ἐντυχόντα λόγοις ἐκτεθεῖσθαι, ἐν οἷς ἔλεγεν· „τὸν ὑπερουράνιον τόπον οὔτε τις ὕμνησε τῶν τῇδε ποιητὴς οὔτε ὑμνήσει κατ᾿ ἀξίαν“ καὶ τὰ ἑξῆς, ἐν οἷς ἐστι καὶ τὸ„ἡ γὰρ ἀχρώματός τε καὶ ἀσχημάτιστος καὶ ἀναφὴς οὐσία ὄντως οὖσα ψυχῆς κυβερνήτῃ νῷ μόνῳ θεατὴ, περὶ ὅν τὸ τῆς ἀληθοῦς ἐπιστήμης γένος τοῦτον ἔχει τὸν τόπον.“ καὶ ἀπ᾿ ἐκείνων γε τῶν λόγων παιδευθεὶς ὁ Παῦλος ἡμῶν καὶ ποθῶν τὰ ὑπερκόσμια καὶ ὑπερου ράνια καὶ δι᾿ ἐκεῖνα πάντα πράττων, ἵν᾿ αὐτῶν τύχῃ, φησὶν ἐν τῇ δευτέρᾳ πρὸς Κορινθίους ἐπιστολῇ· „τὸ γὰρ παραυτίκα ἐλαφρὸν τῆς θλίψεως ἡμῶν καθ᾿ ὑπερβολὴν εἰς ὑπερβολὴν αἰώνιον βάρος δόξης κατεργάζεται ἡμῖν. μὴ σκοπούντων ἡμῶν τὰ βλεπόμενα ἀλλὰ τὰ μὴ βλεπόμενα· τὰ γὰρ βλεπόμενα πρόσκαιρα, τὰ δὲ μὴ βλεπόμενα αἰώνια.“

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About this text

Celsus claims that the best Christian teachings were taken from Plato and said better by the Greeks, and he charges Christians with the diagram of an obscure sect and with a crude reading of Genesis. Origen answers that the plain speech of Scripture serves everyone, that the prophets spoke before Plato, and that the God of the Christians is spirit, not body, and is made known through His Word.

Translated from the Greek of Koetschau, GCS 2–3 (1899), via the Perseus digital text, which serves as the base text. Each chapter was translated from the Greek and then checked clause by clause against it in an independent review. No earlier English translation was consulted.

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Translated from Koetschau GCS 2 – 3 (1899) — Greek (Greek · Book VI, chapters 1 – 81)

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