Dialogues on the Holy Trinity, Dialogue 2
Dialogue 2 opening: coeternal Son begotten by nature; Arians wound with soft words§dialogue-2-open
dialogue-2-openDialogue 2 — That the Son is also coeternal with God the Father and begotten from him by nature.
A. Is it not true, Hermias, that the tale of truth is simple by nature, and has its best seat in simple hearts, and is far sweeter than the bees’ labor? Divine David will persuade you it is so when he says to God the Savior of all, How sweet are your words to my throat, beyond honey to my mouth.
B. Yes. I too would agree that truth’s speech is altogether simple and sweeter than the combs themselves. But what sort of simplicity in these things should we take it to be?
A. What else would show truth’s tale simple for us than that it is free of tangled inquiries, and of a thought that looks somehow grim and unsmiling, composed for mischief, and that spends its strength not on what helps discovery of truth but on what can badly hurt those who listen? Look, if you will, as on a bright tablet, and see that my word has not missed what is fitting when you gaze at the heresy of Arius and those around him — to whom I think one must say, If the Ethiopian will change his skin and the leopard its spots, you too will be able to do good, having learned evil.
For their mind, I think, differs in nothing from a leopard. The beast is spotted in many ways and carries a mixed rush of colors on its back; they have a mind unlike and unjoined even to itself, and send upward the word from the heart. Their tongue is a wounding dart, as it is written; the words of their mouth are deceitful; they speak peace to their neighbor, and in themselves they keep enmity.
They pretend in no way to fight the Only-begotten’s glory; yet they wound as with a sharp dart, sending from the tongue words that contradict and are hard to bear.
B. What sort of words do you mean?
A. While they name the Only-begotten Word of God “Son” quite rightly, and do not refuse to agree that he has been begotten, they force truth’s account, turning the glory about him unholy into the very opposite, and shifting him into another nature than what is thought in the Father — as if he were outside and of another kind, or rather altogether standing away from the natural relation of the one said to beget, and no longer, on their showing, even of one who has begotten.
Greek · §dialogue-2-open
ΛΟΓΟΣ ∆ΕΥΤΕΡΟΣ Ὅτι καὶ συναΐδιος τῷ Θεῷ καὶ Πατρὶ καὶ ἐξ αὐτοῦ κατὰ φύσιν γεννητὸς ὁ Υἱός. {Α.} Ἆρ' οὐκ ἀληθὲς εἰπεῖν, ὦ Ἑρμεία, ὡς ἁπλοῦς τε ἔφυ τῆς ἀληθείας ὁ μῦθος καὶ ἀρίστην ὅτι μάλιστα τὴν ἕδραν ἐν καρδίαις ἔχει ταῖς ἁπλαῖς, παρὰ πολὺ δὲ ἡδίων ἢ μελιττῶν ἐστι πόνος; Ἀληθὲς δὲ ὅτι τὸ χρῆμά ἐστιν ἀναπείσει λέγων ὁ Θεῖος ∆αβὶδ πρὸς τὸν τῶν ὅλων Σωτῆρα Θεόν· "Ὡς γλυκέα τῷ λάρυγγί μου τὰ λόγιά σου, ὑπὲρ μέλι τῷ στόματί μου." {Β.} Ναί. Τῆς ἀληθείας κομιδῇ μὲν ἁπλοῦν καὶ κηρίων αὐτῶν ἡδίονα συμφήσαιμ' ἂν εἶναι καὶ αὐτὸς τὸν λόγον· ἁπλότητος δὲ τῆς ἔν γε τουτοισὶ ποδαπὸς ἂν νοοῖτο πρὸς ἡμῶν ὁ τρόπος; {Α.} Τί γὰρ ἕτερον ἁπλοῦν ἡμῖν ὄντα τῆς ἀληθείας τὸν μῦθον παραδείξειεν ἂν ἢ τὸ πολυπλόκων μὲν ἀπηλλάχθαι διασκεμμάτων καὶ οἱονεὶ βλοσυρόν τι καὶ ἀμειδὲς ὁρώσης ἐννοίας καὶ φιλοκακούργως συντεθειμένης καὶ τῆς ἐνούσης εὐσθενείας αὐτῇ ποιουμένης τὴν ἔνδειξιν οὐκ ἐφ' οἷς ὀνήσει πρὸς ἀληθείας εὕρεσιν, ἀλλ' ἐφ' οἷς ἂν οὐ μετρίως κατα λωβήσαιτο τοὺς ἀκροωμένους; Πάρα δέ, εἴ σοι δοκεῖ, καθάπερ ἐν πίνακι λαμπρῶς καθιδεῖν τὸν ἐμὸν τοῦ πρέποντος οὐχ ἡμαρτηκότα λόγον εἰ τὴν Ἀρείου τε καὶ τῶν ἀμφ' αὐτὸν καταθρήσεις αἵρεσιν, οἷς καὶ εὖ ἔχειν εἰπεῖν οἰήσομαι δεῖν· "Εἰ ἀλλάξεται Αἰθίοψ τὸ δέρμα αὐτοῦ καὶ πάρδαλις τὰ ποικίλματα αὐτῆς, καὶ ὑμεῖς δυνήσεσθε εὖ ποιεῖν, μεμαθηκότες τὰ κακά." Παρδάλεως γὰρ οἶμαι διενεγκεῖν οὐδὲν τῶν δι' ἐναντίας τὸν νοῦν. Ἡ μὲν γὰρ ποικίλως κατε στιγμένη, παμμιγῆ καὶ πάμμορφον χρωμάτων συνδρομὴν ἐπὶ νῶτα φέρει· οἱ δὲ ἀνόμιόν τε καὶ ἀσυναφῆ καὶ αὐτὸν ἔχουσι τὸν νοῦν, καὶ τὸν ἐκ καρδίας ἱεῖσι πρὸς τὸ ἄνω λόγον. "Βόλις γὰρ τιτρώσκουσα ἡ γλῶσσα αὐτῶν, κατὰ τὸ γεγραμμένον, δόλια τὰ ῥήματα τοῦ στόματος αὐτῶν. Τῷ πλησίον αὐτοῦ λαλεῖ εἰρηνικά, καὶ ἐν ἑαυτῷ ἔχει τὴν 418 ἔχθραν." Ὑποπλάττονται μὲν γὰρ κατ' οὐδένα τρόπον τῇ τοῦ Μονογενοῦς ἀντιφέρεσθαι δόξῃ· τιτρώσκουσι δὲ καθάπερ ὀξείᾳ βολίδι, παλίμφημά τε καὶ δυσαχθῆ τὰ ἀπὸ γλώττης ἱέντες ῥήματα. {Β.} Τὰ ποῖα ἅττα φῄς; {Α.} Ὀρθῶς γὰρ δὴ λίαν Υἱὸν ὀνομάζοντες τὸν μονογενῆ τοῦ Θεοῦ Λόγον, καὶ μὴν καὶ ὡς εἴη γεγεννημένος συνομο λογεῖν οὐ παραιτούμενοι, τὸν τῆς ἀληθείας παραβιάζονται λόγον, περιτρέποντες ἀνοσίως εἰς πᾶν τοὐναντίον τὴν ἐπ' αὐτῷ δόξαν, καὶ εἰς ἑτέραν τινὰ μεθιστάντες φύσιν παρὰ τὴν ἐν Πατρὶ νοουμένην, ὡς ἐξούσιόν τε εἶναι καὶ ἑτεροφυά, μᾶλλον δὲ εἰσάπαν ἐξεστηκότα τῆς τοῦ λεγομένου τεκεῖν σχέσεως φυσικῆς, οὐκ ἔτι δὲ κατ' αὐτοὺς καὶ γεγεννη κότος. Τὸ δὲ δὴ πρὸς τοῦτο ἠλιθιότητος καθικνεῖσθαι φιλεῖν, φαίην ἂν ἔγωγε προξενεῖν αὐτοῖς ἕτερον οὐδὲν ἢ ἐκεῖνο. {Β.} Τὸ ποῖον δή;
Dial.2 rem early: begotten means natural Son, not creature word-play§d2-rem-early
d2-rem-earlyA drives the Arian dodge into the open: they say “Son” and “begotten,” yet deny a natural begetting from the Father, as if the Word were other in kind and outside the begetter’s relation. That folly, he says, buys them nothing but a further absurdity Hermias asks to hear.
The talk turns on what “Father” and “begetting” must mean if Scripture’s names are not empty. If the Son is truly begotten, he is not a made thing ranked by grace alone; the Father’s own begetting sets him in the Father’s nature. Condensed early rem: lemma-led from PG 75 after the leopard/Arius opening.
Greek · §d2-rem-early
{Α.} Τὸ κατωφρυῶσθαι λίαν, οἴεσθαι δέ τι τῶν ἄλλων εἰδέναι φρονεῖν τε καὶ λέγειν ἀπορρητότερον, ἐπησκῆσθαί τε καὶ λόγων ἁμίλλας καὶ μὴν καὶ δοκησισόφοις ἐντεθράφθαι τέχναις, καὶ ταῖς τῶν ἐννοιῶν πρὸς πᾶν ὁτιοῦν εὐκόλοις περιστροφαῖς κατὰ κράτος ἑλεῖν δύνασθαι τοὺς ἁπλῇ συνέσει διαβιοῦν ἑλομένους, καλαμίνην δὲ ὥσπερ ταῖς ἑαυτῶν ψυχαῖς ὑποστήσαντες ῥάβδον τὴν ἐν κόσμῳ σοφίαν καὶ νενοθευμένων ἐννοιῶν συρφετοὺς συλλέγοντες, τῆς τῶν δογμάτων ὀρθότητος τὸ μὴ χρῆναι διαμαρτεῖν οὐδέν, οἶμαι, καταλογίζονται. Οὐ γὰρ ἐννοοῦσιν ὅτι ξυνωρὶς μὲν ἱερὰ τῶν Ἀαρὼν κατεφλέχθη παίδων, ἐπεί τοι τὸ Θεῷ δοκοῦν ἐβιάζετο καὶ ὀθνεῖον τῷ θυσιαστηρίῳ προσεκόμιζε πῦρ, οὔτε μὴν ἐπαΐειν τάχα που λοιπὸν ἀνέχονται διακεκραγότος τοῦ νόμου· "Καὶ οὐκ εἰσοίσεις βδέλυγμα εἰς τὸν οἶκόν σου, καὶ ἀνάθεμα ἔσῃ ὥσπερ καὶ τοῦτο. Προσοχθίσματι προσοχθιεῖς καὶ βδελύγματι βδελύξῃ, ὅτι ἀνάθεμά ἐστι." Πῦρ γὰρ ἀληθῶς ἀλλότριον καὶ ἀπᾴδον Θεῷ θερμὸν διανοίας κίνημα, τῆς δαιμονιώδους σοφίας ἐκμεμεστωμένον καὶ οὔ τί που τῶν ἱερῶν Γραμμάτων ἐκκεκαυμένον. Βδέλυγμα δὲ αὖ τὸ εἰς Θεοῦ τύπον πλαστουρ γούμενον ἄγαλμα. Τοιουτονὶ δὲ κἀκεῖνοι διαπλάττουσι τὸν Υἱόν, τιμῇ μὲν καὶ δόξῃ λαμπρᾷ καὶ θεοπρεπεὶ κατη γλαϊσμένον {καὶ θεοπρεπῶς}, πλὴν οὐκ ἀληθῆ, νόθοις δὲ ὥσπερ ὀνόμασι καὶ θεοπρεπέσι φωναῖς εἰδοποιηθέντα Θεόν. Τὸ γάρτοι φάναι μὲν ὅτι γεγέννηται, καὶ Υἱὸν ὀνομάζειν αὐτόν, μὴ μὴν ἔτι καὶ οἴεσθαι γεγεννῆσθαί τε καὶ Υἱὸν 419 εἶναι κατὰ φύσιν, τί ἂν εἴη λοιπὸν ἢ τοῦτο; Ἡμῖν δὲ ὁ θησαυρὸς ἐν ὀστρακίνοις σκεύεσι, καὶ γυμνὴ σοφίας κοσμικῆς καὶ δαιμονιώδους ἀπάτης ἡ ἀλήθεια φίλη. {Β.} Φίλη γάρ, καὶ ἄριστά γε ἔφης. Ἀλλ' ἴοις ἂν ἤδη καὶ πρὸς βάσανον τῶν ἐκείνοις ὑπειλημμένων περί τε τοῦ Πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ Υἱοῦ. Τὸ γὰρ δὴ μάλιστα τελοῦν εἰς ὄνησιν τοῖς ἐντευξομένοις τουτὶ δοίην ἄν. {Α.} Ὀνήσειεν ἂν οἶδ' ὅτι μάλιστά γε τουτί. Καὶ ἐπείπερ ὧδε ἔχειν ἀριστά σοι δοκεῖ, φέρε καθάπερ Ἑλλήνων οἱ ποιηταί φασι, πεῖσμ' ἀπολυσάμενοι, καὶ οἱάπερ ἀκτῆς καὶ ὁρμητηρίων ἀπαίροντες, ἀφῶμεν εἰς πέλαγος ὁλκάδα ὅπως τὸν λόγον. {Β.} Ἰτέον δὴ οὖν. {Α.} Ἴδιον μ
Dial.2 rem mid: from-the-Father without “after” in time§d2-rem-mid
d2-rem-midMid Dialogue 2 presses coeternity with natural generation: from the Father does not mean after the Father in time. Human begetting is a weak picture; God begets without flux, without passion, without a later start for the Son.
Texts that call the Son only-begotten and from God are read so that “from” marks nature, not craft. Opponents who keep the syllables but empty the sense are answered from the same lemmas. Condensed mid rem.
Greek · §d2-rem-mid
ἐκτίσθαι ἐστί, μᾶλλον δέ, εἴπερ ἓν ἄμφω καὶ ταὐτόν, διϊστάντος ὅλως πρὸς ἑτερότητα μηδενός; Γεγεννῆσθαι γὰρ δώσομεν πᾶν ὅπερ ἔστι, κἂν εἰ παρήχθη πρὸς γένεσιν. {Β.} Ἆρ' οὖν ἐξ αὐτῆς ἡμᾶς τῆς ἰδίας φύσεως γεγέννηκεν ὁ Πατήρ; {Α.} Οὐ γεγέννηκε μὲν ἡμᾶς ἐξ ἰδίας φύσεως ὁ Θεὸς καὶ Πατήρ· πλὴν οὐχ ὅπερ ἂν φαίνοιτο νοσοῦν ἑφ' ἠμῶν τὸ ἀπρεπὲς καὶ ἀμήχανον τοῦτο δὴ πάντως ἀντιτάξεται κατὰ τὸν ἴσον λόγον καὶ τῷ κατὰ φύσιν Υἱῷ. Ἐκτίσμεθα μὲν γὰρ ὁμολογουμένως ἡμεῖς· ὁ δὲ τῆς οὐσίας ἐξέφυ τοῦ Θεοῦ καὶ Πατρός, πρὸς ὃν καὶ ἡμεῖς διαμορφούμεθα καὶ ἐν γεννήσεως τάξει τὴν ἐξ ἡμερότητος δεχόμενοι χάριν, ἐν υἱοῖς τετάγμεθα Θεοῦ, θύραθεν μὲν καὶ εἰσποιητὸν κομιζόμενοι τὸ ἀξίωμα, θετοὶ δὲ υἱοί, διαπεπλασμένοι πρὸς ἀληθινὸν καὶ εἰσκεκλημένοι πρὸς δόξαν τὴν τοῦ κατὰ φύσιν. Θετοὶ δὲ ὅλως οὐκ ἂν εἶεν υἱοὶ μὴ τοῦ κατὰ φύσιν προϋφεστηκότος καὶ τῆς ἀληθοῦς γεννήσεως τῆς ἐσύστερον εἰκόνος προϋποφαινούσης ἐν ἑαυτῇ τὸ ἀρχέτυπον. Εἴπερ οὖν οὐ τέτοκεν ἀληθῶς ὁ Πατήρ, διά γε τοῦτο παρ' αὐτῷ τὸ γεννᾶν τῷ κτίζειν οὐχ ἕτερον, οἴχεται μὲν ἡμῖν ἐκποδὼν ὁ ἐφ' Υἱῷ λόγος, ἄγονος δὲ καὶ ἡ τοῦ Πατρὸς καταφωρᾶται 440 φύσις. Φρούδη δὲ ὥσπερ καὶ ἡ τῶν τὴν πίστιν παραδε δεγμένων ἐλπίς. Ποῦ γὰρ ὅλως υἱότης ἔτι; Ποῦ δὲ τὸ ἐντεῦθεν ἀξίωμα, πρὸς τὸ ἀμεινόνως ἔχειν ἀνακομίζειν δυνάμενον τὸ ἐν κτίσμασι τελοῦν, εἴπερ ἐν ἴσῳ λόγῳ τε καὶ μέτρῳ τῷ τεχθέντι τὸ ποιηθέν, συνθεούσης κατ' ἐκείνους εἰς ἕν τι τὸ χρῆμα κτίσεώς τε καὶ γεννήσεως; Ἆρ' οὖν οὐχὶ λῆρόν τε εἶναι ταυτὶ καὶ τῶν ἄγαν αἰσχρῶν φαίη τις ἂν αἰσχίονα; {Β.} Κομιδῇ μὲν οὖν. {Α.} Εἰ δὲ δὴ καὶ σύνεδρος εἶναι λέγοιτο καὶ ἔστιν ἀληθῶς ὁ Υἱὸς τῷ Πατρί, τῆς ἐν ἀληθείᾳ γεννήσεως οὐκ εἰσκομι ζούσης αὐτῷ τὸ δεῖν πάντη τε καὶ πάντως τῇ τοῦ τεκόντος ἐναγλαΐζεσθαι φύσει διὰ τῆς εἰσάπαν ὁμοιότητός τε καὶ ἰσότητος, οὐκ ἀναφανδὸν ἤδη πως ἐροῦσι τὴν τῷ γενεσιουργῷ πρέπουσάν τε καὶ ἐνυπάρχουσαν δόξαν καὶ ἐπ' αὐτὴν ἤδη διήκειν τὴν τῶν γεννητῶν φύσιν καὶ ἀξίωμα τὸ δεσποτικὸν ἀνῆφθαι τὸ δοῦλον; Καὶ μὴν ὁ θεσπέσιος γράφει Παῦλος· "Τίνι γὰρ εἶπέ ποτε τῶν ἀγγέλων· Υἱός μου εἶ σύ," ἤ· "
Dial.2 rem CLOSEOUT: coeternal begotten Son; creature talk shut§d2-rem-close
d2-rem-closeClose of Dialogue 2 gathers the thread: the Son is coeternal with the Father and begotten from him by nature. Creature-language and “there was when he was not” cannot sit with true sonship.
Hermias assents that fatherhood and sonship here are not interchangeable badges of rank but mark begetter and begotten without dividing the Godhead into unlike natures. DIALOGUE 2 CLOSEOUT.
Greek · §d2-rem-close
ῦ τοῦ κατὰ φύσιν ὁρᾶσθαι Πατέρα σοφὸν εἶναί τι καὶ παγκάλως ἔχον κατεφαίνετο τῷ Θεῷ καὶ Πατρί, τίς ὁ ἐπὶ τὸ χρῆναι τεκεῖν ἢ πόθεν ἂν γένοιτο μελησμός; Τί τὸ ἐμποδὼν καὶ τὸ οὔπω δεῖν εἶναι Πατέρα τὸν Θεὸν χρησίμως τε καὶ ἀναγκαίως ἐκδυσωποῦν; Ἄνθρωποι μὲν γὰρ ἀεὶ μὲν ὅτι δυνάμει πατέρες, οὐ μὴν ἔτι καὶ ἐνεργείᾳ, οὐδενὶ τῶν ὄντων ἀσυμφανές· ἐναργὴς δὲ λίαν ἡ παρὰ πόδας κειμένη καὶ διακωλύουσα πρόφασις. Ἀφιγμένης γὰρ οὔπω πρὸς ἥβην τῆς τοῦ σώματος ἡλικίας, καταμύει πως ἔτι καὶ ἐνηρεμεῖ τῇ φύσει τὰ αὐτῆς, καὶ οἱονεὶ τὸν πρέποντα ταῖς εἰς ἐμφάνειαν ἀναδείξεσι περιμένει καιρόν. Ἐπὶ δέ γε Θεοῦ, τοῦ τελείως ἔχοντος ἀεὶ καὶ ὄντος ὅ ἐστιν, οὐκ ἐξ ἐπιδόσεως τῆς ἐπί τι τῶν οὔπω προσπεφυκότων καὶ τὴν ἐν χρόνῳ διάδειξιν ἀπαραίτητόν τε καὶ ἀναγκαίαν ἐχόντων, ἐκλάμ ποντος δὲ τῆς ἰδίας οὐσίας ἡμῖν τὸν Υἱὸν καὶ ἐν τάξει χαρακτῆρος οὐσιωδῶς ἐμπεφυκὸς αὐτῷ τὸ ἴδιον ἔχοντος γέννημα, πῶς ἂν ἐπινοηθείη τὸ μὴ ἀεί τε καὶ ὁμοῦ τῷ εἶναι τεκεῖν κατ' ἐνέργειαν, ἑστάναι δὲ μᾶλλον ἐν τῷ κατὰ 461 δύναμιν, καὶ οὐσιώδη παθεῖν τὴν κίνησιν, τὴν εἰς ὅπερ οὐκ ἦν ἐν ἀρχαῖς εἰσδεδεγμένον μετάστασιν; ∆υσσεβήσομεν δὲ οὐ μετρίως καὶ εἰς αὐτὸν τὸν Υἱὸν εἰ μὴ ταῖς τῶν δι' ἐναντίας ἀντιταττόμεθα δόξαις. Οὐκέτι γὰρ ἔσται ποιητὴς αἰώνων ὁ Μονογενής, παρεισδεδυκότος οὐκ οἶδ' ὅπως τοῦ χρόνου καὶ πρεσβυτέραν ἔχοντος τὴν ὑπόληψιν τοῦ κατ' ἐνέργειαν λέγεσθαι γεννᾶν τὸν Πατέρα καὶ Θεόν· εἴπερ ἐξ ἀγεννησίας ἔτι, τουτέστιν ἐκ τοῦ κατὰ δύναμιν, εἰς γέννησιν κατ' ἐνέργειαν οὐκ ἀχρόνως προήκοι ἄν, καὶ εἰ βραχὺ κομιδῇ καὶ ἀκαριαῖον νοοῖτο τὸ μεταξύ. Εἶναι δέ φημι πάναισχρόν τε καὶ ἀκαλλὲς ἥλιον μὲν οἴεσθαι καὶ πῦρ οὔ ποτε μὲν ὅπερ εἰσὶν οὐκ εἶναι τυχόν, ἀλλ' οὐδὲ στάσιν καὶ ἕδραν ἐσχηκέναι πώποτε, τὴν ἐν μόνῳ τῷ κατὰ δύναμιν νοουμένην, ἥκειν δὲ οὕτως εἰς ἐνέργειαν ὡς ἐν κινήσει τῇ κατὰ χρόνον καὶ φύσει, συμπεφυκότα δὲ μᾶλλον καὶ τῇ τῆς γενέσεως ἀρχῇ συντρέχοντα τὰ ἐνόντα λαχεῖν, Θεὸν δὲ σωμάτων μὴ ὑπερκεῖσθαι λέγειν, μήτε μὴν ὑπονοεῖν φύσεως ἰδίας ὥσπερ ἕπεσθαι θεσμοῖς ἔν γε τῷ χρῆναι τεκεῖν, ᾗπερ ἂν αὐτῷ τε καὶ μόνῳ πρέποι.