Dialogues on the Holy Trinity, Dialogue 2 · §d2-rem-mid

Dial.2 rem mid: from-the-Father without “after” in time

Mid Dialogue 2 presses coeternity with natural generation: from the Father does not mean after the Father in time. Human begetting is a weak picture; God begets without flux, without passion, without a later start for the Son.

Texts that call the Son only-begotten and from God are read so that “from” marks nature, not craft. Opponents who keep the syllables but empty the sense are answered from the same lemmas. Condensed mid rem.

Greek

ἐκτίσθαι ἐστί, μᾶλλον δέ, εἴπερ ἓν ἄμφω καὶ ταὐτόν, διϊστάντος ὅλως πρὸς ἑτερότητα μηδενός; Γεγεννῆσθαι γὰρ δώσομεν πᾶν ὅπερ ἔστι, κἂν εἰ παρήχθη πρὸς γένεσιν. {Β.} Ἆρ' οὖν ἐξ αὐτῆς ἡμᾶς τῆς ἰδίας φύσεως γεγέννηκεν ὁ Πατήρ; {Α.} Οὐ γεγέννηκε μὲν ἡμᾶς ἐξ ἰδίας φύσεως ὁ Θεὸς καὶ Πατήρ· πλὴν οὐχ ὅπερ ἂν φαίνοιτο νοσοῦν ἑφ' ἠμῶν τὸ ἀπρεπὲς καὶ ἀμήχανον τοῦτο δὴ πάντως ἀντιτάξεται κατὰ τὸν ἴσον λόγον καὶ τῷ κατὰ φύσιν Υἱῷ. Ἐκτίσμεθα μὲν γὰρ ὁμολογουμένως ἡμεῖς· ὁ δὲ τῆς οὐσίας ἐξέφυ τοῦ Θεοῦ καὶ Πατρός, πρὸς ὃν καὶ ἡμεῖς διαμορφούμεθα καὶ ἐν γεννήσεως τάξει τὴν ἐξ ἡμερότητος δεχόμενοι χάριν, ἐν υἱοῖς τετάγμεθα Θεοῦ, θύραθεν μὲν καὶ εἰσποιητὸν κομιζόμενοι τὸ ἀξίωμα, θετοὶ δὲ υἱοί, διαπεπλασμένοι πρὸς ἀληθινὸν καὶ εἰσκεκλημένοι πρὸς δόξαν τὴν τοῦ κατὰ φύσιν. Θετοὶ δὲ ὅλως οὐκ ἂν εἶεν υἱοὶ μὴ τοῦ κατὰ φύσιν προϋφεστηκότος καὶ τῆς ἀληθοῦς γεννήσεως τῆς ἐσύστερον εἰκόνος προϋποφαινούσης ἐν ἑαυτῇ τὸ ἀρχέτυπον. Εἴπερ οὖν οὐ τέτοκεν ἀληθῶς ὁ Πατήρ, διά γε τοῦτο παρ' αὐτῷ τὸ γεννᾶν τῷ κτίζειν οὐχ ἕτερον, οἴχεται μὲν ἡμῖν ἐκποδὼν ὁ ἐφ' Υἱῷ λόγος, ἄγονος δὲ καὶ ἡ τοῦ Πατρὸς καταφωρᾶται 440 φύσις. Φρούδη δὲ ὥσπερ καὶ ἡ τῶν τὴν πίστιν παραδε δεγμένων ἐλπίς. Ποῦ γὰρ ὅλως υἱότης ἔτι; Ποῦ δὲ τὸ ἐντεῦθεν ἀξίωμα, πρὸς τὸ ἀμεινόνως ἔχειν ἀνακομίζειν δυνάμενον τὸ ἐν κτίσμασι τελοῦν, εἴπερ ἐν ἴσῳ λόγῳ τε καὶ μέτρῳ τῷ τεχθέντι τὸ ποιηθέν, συνθεούσης κατ' ἐκείνους εἰς ἕν τι τὸ χρῆμα κτίσεώς τε καὶ γεννήσεως; Ἆρ' οὖν οὐχὶ λῆρόν τε εἶναι ταυτὶ καὶ τῶν ἄγαν αἰσχρῶν φαίη τις ἂν αἰσχίονα; {Β.} Κομιδῇ μὲν οὖν. {Α.} Εἰ δὲ δὴ καὶ σύνεδρος εἶναι λέγοιτο καὶ ἔστιν ἀληθῶς ὁ Υἱὸς τῷ Πατρί, τῆς ἐν ἀληθείᾳ γεννήσεως οὐκ εἰσκομι ζούσης αὐτῷ τὸ δεῖν πάντη τε καὶ πάντως τῇ τοῦ τεκόντος ἐναγλαΐζεσθαι φύσει διὰ τῆς εἰσάπαν ὁμοιότητός τε καὶ ἰσότητος, οὐκ ἀναφανδὸν ἤδη πως ἐροῦσι τὴν τῷ γενεσιουργῷ πρέπουσάν τε καὶ ἐνυπάρχουσαν δόξαν καὶ ἐπ' αὐτὴν ἤδη διήκειν τὴν τῶν γεννητῶν φύσιν καὶ ἀξίωμα τὸ δεσποτικὸν ἀνῆφθαι τὸ δοῦλον; Καὶ μὴν ὁ θεσπέσιος γράφει Παῦλος· "Τίνι γὰρ εἶπέ ποτε τῶν ἀγγέλων· Υἱός μου εἶ σύ," ἤ· "

About this text

Cyril of Alexandria, Dialogue 2 on the Holy and Consubstantial Trinity (Greek). Complete on this page: opening + rem CLOSEOUT.

English follows PG 75 Greek (CPG 5216). Durand SC French and modern English syncs were not used as wording. Dialogue 2 CLOSEOUT.

Witnesses

  • Copy-text PG 75 — De sancta et consubstantiali Trinitate dialogi (Greek · Dialogue 1 prologue + opening)

English is newly prepared for study from the stated edition. Open Greek on each section for the source text. This is not a complete critical edition.